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Support for downtown walkway

April 23, 2013

Some have criticized the proposed walkway connecting the Franklin Street parking deck with Courthouse Square as a waste of money....

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(29)

SURV69

May-14-13 4:42 PM

"The stairways are there to save steps otherwise you would have to walk the entire deck to get out." ...

well... you're right... so?

So let's ignore the fact that the closest steps(to the walkway), are at the northwest corner of the deck which makes the walk from the steps to Market Street considerably shorter than through this walkway.

I see $80k of the government's money being basically wasted to improve a private business's property for a very limited(if any), benefit ...

I suppose that if "cuteness", of having a walkway is a potential benefit ... okay.

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PaulClouser

May-13-13 8:07 PM

You crack me up. The stairways are there to save steps otherwise you would have to walk the entire deck to get out. That really is amusing! And i don't need anymore access to the back of my building. I already have 3 doors there. Some of the upcoming changes to downtown parking were also discussed at the public meeting. I belive this is my last post unless you would like to lob another softball over the plate.

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SURV69

May-13-13 10:38 AM

The fact that the stairwells are considerably closer to Market Street(than using your magical walkway) is a total no-brainer's idea that "if I build it, they will come".

Somehow, I don't think this scheme to improve access to your building at taxpayer's cost has the magic touch you're practically guaranteeing.

Let's also forget all the readily available parking all around downtown... much of it free.

As I said before, I don't like government paying for capital imrovements on someone's private property, but also for an idea that is, at best of very marginal benefit to the public.

But you sure do seem to want it really badly...

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SURV69

May-13-13 10:24 AM

Oh my... getting personal.

I still say the benefit is very limited... very limited, in the best of conditions(including walking down the traffic ways of the deck), which YOU HOPE will be filled with cars looking out for the parkers who choose to play in traffic, still get wet on rainy days and still walk in slush on snowy days on the way to this magical walkway.

As you evidently see it, the stairwells that were built FOR THE SAFETY OF THE WALKING PEDESTRIANS, is really just wasted money and not a safety issue for parkers of the deck.

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PaulClouser

May-13-13 10:09 AM

Give it up jf.

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SURV69

May-12-13 8:33 PM

Yes... absolutely pathetic to use government to benefit your privately owned building.

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PaulClouser

May-12-13 2:28 PM

Absolutely pathetic!

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SURV69

May-10-13 10:38 AM

Well then... tell me where the stairwell is if it's not the in the northwest corner of the parking deck.

If it is(which it is), in the northwest corner of the parking deck, tell me how traversing your walkway becomes an advantage to anyone using the stairwell.

Do as you like, but I don't walk down driving areas of parking decks except to get to a stairwell, then I use the stairwell(it's why they're put in).

This project seems to be something you really want to push.

When someone wants to really push something of marginal benefit(if any benefit at all)... well...

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PaulClouser

May-09-13 9:06 PM

I just can't resist answering. Am I reading this correctly? You have no idea what this deck looks like? You don't even know how many levels there are? You now state the deck is not designed to be walked in? How do you think people get from their car to outside the deck, by taxi? And I talked to the "authorities". Judging by their response to reading your post, they definitely think you are wrong. For someone who doesn't live in Warren, you really don't want the walk thru (something else you haven't seen or even properly investigated).

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SURV69

Apr-29-13 11:58 AM

Let's assume that the "smart", way to exit the deck is to walk down the driving lanes for cars... I don't suggest it...especially if the decks ever do get busy.

Nonetheless, unless people who park on the second or third deck(if there's three), a real short cut could be to jump over the edge... a leap of faith for this walkway.

The preferred method of exiting the deck(and I'm sure the authorities would agree),is to use the stairwells to go from floor to floor and to exist the parking deck.

This puts a person substantially closer to Market Street than the walkway will.

You really seem to want this white elephant pretty badly.

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chaos2

Apr-28-13 11:18 AM

Please, I am not going to walk past 500 empty parking spaces to get to any parking deck. Why would the City shell out thousands of dollars on a private building project for saving a few steps to go around a building. Oh boy do we have some real smart ones downtown working on this one.

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nativio289

Apr-26-13 4:47 PM

The walk-way idea dates back to the mid-90s. WRAP actually bought the current comic shop building in order to put this walk-way in...

I've heard that the walk-way was not put in then, by WRAP and the city, because the 161 W.Market building was not close enough to the rear entrance...

Don't know how true that is... Sounds silly.

And then WRAP sold the building within a few years...

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PClouser

Apr-26-13 3:29 PM

Good Lord help us all! My involvement on this started last November, not years ago. Additionally, you can also exit the deck from the north east corner (not just the stairwell you conveniently chose to use to bolster your postion) which puts you within 60' of the walkway). I won't bother correcting all your other mistakes because this is becoming juvenile. Sometimes you have to actually see something to understand it. The internet doesn't hold all the answers. I think anyone reading these threads will see where the truth is. Feel free to continue without me.

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SURV69

Apr-26-13 8:48 AM

I do see the city of Warren involved in a quazi capital investment soley for the benefits of the citizens and all the "other" businesses downtown, with you, evidently the only business that expects no gain from this publicly funded enterprise of questionable value.

The city should not be in the business of funding a project of questionable value . . . especially in partnership with a private business.

Regardless of the number of walls within the building.

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SURV69

Apr-26-13 8:40 AM

Well, the auditor's card seems to have missed the central wall.

As far as the realtors, maybe they were just being pragmatic, so let me be pragmatic.

The distance from the parking deck stairwell to Mahoning/Main, then north to Market Street is about 210'.

The distance from the nearest stairwell to the east end of you building at the rear is about 180 feet, plus the 100 feet within your building for a total of about 280'.

Now, in inclimate weather, the distance to your internal walkway, is almost the same as walking to Mahoning/Main and to Market.

Both ways get you the square. 210' in the rain going by Mahoning/Main st., and 180' in the rain to the walkway, plus the additional 100 feet within your building.

What I do see is someone whos been evidently pushing this for years, says they don't really care but appears to be working hard to make their argument for the walkway, for the good of the people and the city.

I don't see it!

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ItIsntEasyBeingFree

Apr-26-13 8:37 AM

The 100ft walkway to revitalization! Sounds like buying a stairway to heaven or a bridge to nowhere!

I thought Eastern Gateway and TBEIC were the keys!

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PClouser

Apr-25-13 8:21 PM

Actually, had you come to the meeting (broken record) you would realize how wrong your remarks are. The building is cut in half by a 2'brick wall with 22' wide units on each side. The west side is my showroom and it won't connect to the walkway (2' of brick, remember?). Besides, foot traffic doesn't increase the number of fires people have so no advantage there. The east side is also 22' wide. The walkway will take 8' of it plus additional footage at the front and rear leaving me a tenant space less than 14' wide and less than 1000sf. And the improvement doesn't offset the lost revenue according to several realtors I asked long before I agreed to this. Who told you it would? I want them as a tenant. Martha, let it go. There is no reason to entertain uninformed remarks. It's a waste of time & energy. I have gone above & beyond in regards to this. I have nothing to hide which is why my name is attached to every post. I am resigned to the fact there are always nay sayers.

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SURV69

Apr-25-13 6:35 PM

Actually the hallway will be the fifth & sixth walls, which should leave about 22+ feet on the west side of the walkway and about 17' on the east side of the walkway.

The pass through walkway, has the potential of making the rental of offices off the hallway "prime".

If so, the potential for higher rent on an internal walkway(reads.... foot traffic), with easy access to the deck and with a lift to boot, should certainly offset the "lost" space, which evidently would've existed without the city's expenditure... otherwise, why put in the "walls" that are evidently going to define the hallway(to be a walkway)?

I'm sorry, but I don't like the idea of government money involved in a private enterprise.

But even if I did ... again I say... look at a 2013 aerial photo of downtown for the absolutely numerous offstreet parking areas all around the square, then tell me how busy this town has to be to even half fill the parking deck.

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Yoderdame

Apr-25-13 6:31 PM

Oh and by the way, I'm just a little ray of sunshine in person-not bitter, spiteful, or vindicative. Although, I think bitter, spiteful, and vindictive would make a great name for a heavy metal band. :)

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Yoderdame

Apr-25-13 6:27 PM

Okay, I don't usually comment on my own columns, but I'm going to jump in here because I think this whole walls thing needs some clarification. The walkthrough will run North/South on the far East side of the building with the current wall being the East wall of the walkthrough and a wall being built to be the West wall of the walkway. On the West of the walkway will be space that Mr. Clouser is renting. I think (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) that space will have doors/windows leading out to the walkthrough. Now, Mr. Clouser could have kept the large space intact and rented it out as it was. He had people asking to rent it. There are other businesses on the block of a similar space without interior hallways. I'm thinking specifically of Thom Duma's jewelry store which I think is about that size. (I'm not the best judge of space-maybe Josh knows if that is correct.) Anyway, Mr. Clouser is losing square footage that he could have rented out.

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Yoderdame

Apr-25-13 6:27 PM

Okay, I don't usually comment on my own columns, but I'm going to jump in here because I think this whole walls thing needs some clarification. The walkthrough will run North/South on the far East side of the building with the current wall being the East wall of the walkthrough and a wall being built to be the West wall of the walkway. On the West of the walkway will be space that Mr. Clouser is renting. I think (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) that space will have doors/windows leading out to the walkthrough. Now, Mr. Clouser could have kept the large space intact and rented it out as it was. He had people asking to rent it. There are other businesses on the block of a similar space without interior hallways. I'm thinking specifically of Thom Duma's jewelry store which I think is about that size. (I'm not the best judge of space-maybe Josh knows if that is correct.) Anyway, Mr. Clouser is losing square footage that he could have rented out.

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nativio289

Apr-25-13 5:33 PM

Like most buildings, this building has four walls. Ceiling don't float.

The hallway would be the fifth wall.

Sorry to get so technical.

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SURV69

Apr-25-13 4:32 PM

April 11, 2013:

'I'm doing everything else,' Clouser said. 'I'm putting in the side walls, electrical work, lights, heating, redoing the flooring and anything else I would have done anyway.

To me this sounds like you were evidently putting the "side walls", in anyway.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like you were planning on putting in a hallway which would/could split the building into usable office spaces on both side of the hallway.

I remain skeptical of a city/private partnership that involves capital improvement of the private property.

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PaulClouser

Apr-25-13 3:03 PM

Thanks Waterman. There are A LOT of people working very hard to improve this area. I am dotting every i and crossing every t I find. Keep in mind that it is not my choice whom the city involves in this process and quite honestly I will work with anyone that wants to improve this community. That is why I was thrilled to have the public meeting. I stayed until every question was answered. In recent postings, I have offered to have another meeting to answer, and in most cases reanswer, the accusations bandied about here with no takers. I have also asked those to please join forces with us. Again, no takers. And going against my rule of not answering anonymous nay saying, the building doesn't need a hallway, particularly an 8' wide one. It would be far more profitable for me to rent out the entire 2000sf on htat side than to give up half of it for a walkway for which I collect no rent for the next 50 years. (Standing back waiting for heads to explode)

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SURV69

Apr-25-13 10:01 AM

Someone please indicate to me, what's likely to happen in 10-20 years that will even then, lead the citizens to believe the deck was needed?

Now... the interior walls that we all talk about... the space that's being "given up", are gong to be built anyway. Obviously a long building needs to remain either completely open, or there needs to be a long hallway(walkway) to make better use of the interior... maybe for multiple offices... with access to the parking deck.

Why wasn't this idea addressed almost 20 years ago? What happened to the walkthrough that I seem to remember from about 10-15 years ago, closer to Mahoning Ave.?

This city has too long of a bad history of poorly thought out plans, and much wasted money.

Too much so, for a city of this size...

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